In this enlightening episode of the Leading Below the Surface podcast, host LaTonya Wilkins chats with Maha Abouelenein, bestselling author of Seven Rules of Self-Reliance,” as they explore the core principles of self-reliant leadership and how investing in oneself can empower personal and professional growth. Discover actionable strategies for creating value for others, the significance of treating your reputation as currency, and the importance of fostering meaningful connections through a “service-oriented” networking approach. Tune in to learn why self-reliant leadership isn’t selfish but a powerful way to enhance your contributions in both your personal and professional life!
Topics explored include: Reputation Management, Career Development, Building Meaningful Connections, Building Meaningful Connections, Book Launches
Quotes:
Self-reliance is not about not needing anybody or not needing help – it’s about empowering yourself and investing in yourself first.
Don’t go for the ask first – be a long-term player.
Treat your reputation like a currency; know what it worth and its value;
Seek to know what others value and focus on delivering that.
Resources from today’s episode:
– Change Coaches Guide to Create Psychological Safe Conversations Across Differences
– Change Coaches Newsletter
– Leading Below the Surface LinkedIn Newsletter
Transcript:
A: LaTonya Wilkins
B: Maha Abouelenein
00:00 A Welcome to the Leading Below the Surface podcast, where we explore how to navigate and thrive in today’s changing workplace. Hello everyone, I’m your host, LaTonuya WWilkins, and I’m excited for our guest today.
00:01:17 – A She is the author of The Seven Rules of Self-Reliance and has an interesting career, having worked with notable people, including Gary Vee. She was introduced to me through a friend from different social circles. I welcome Maha. Maha, how are you today?
00:01:46 – B I’m so grateful to be here. How are you?
00:01:48 – A Good. We’re recording this right before the US Thanksgiving holiday, so I’m looking forward to some time off. How about yourself?
00:02:02 – B I love turkey and football. It’s my favorite way to spend a day off in sweatpants, watching television, playing games with family, and just relaxing. The best part about taking a break is that everyone else is on break.
00:02:20 – A Right.
00:02:20 – B No one is looking for you. It’s hard to disconnect when the office is still running. During Thanksgiving, everyone can completely disconnect, making it a special time of the year.
00:02:38 – A Yeah. So who is your team? You mentioned football.
00:02:42 – B I’m a huge sports junkie. I’m from Minnesota, so I represent the Vikings.
00:02:48 – A Okay.
00:02:49 – B I love watching the Vikings. My favorite player is Josh Allen from the Buffalo Bills. I’m a huge Swifty, so I keep an eye on Travis Kelsey. My team is definitely the Vikings, but I enjoy following certain players and seeing what they’re up to.
00:03:11 – A That’s interesting. I’m a Bears fan, unfortunately. I’ve been a fan since the 80s.
00:03:18 – B Those were the days of the Bears with Mike Ditka, the Refrigerator Perry, and Jim McMahon. The Bears were the team.
00:03:31 – A Yeah, that era never returned. We deal with a lot of disappointment. We’re cautiously optimistic about Caleb Williams, but we’ll see. There’s a lot of pressure.
00:03:47 – B A new rookie in a new system with changing offensive coordinators and coaches faces a lot of pressure, especially as the number one draft pick. He’ll find his rhythm.
00:04:00 – A We’ll see. Hopefully. You’ve been on a book tour, right? How’s that been going?
00:04:09 – B I learned that writing a book is easy, but selling it is hard. The publishing world is very different from digital media and communication. The learning process was a big curve for me.
00:04:25 – B I did a book tour in New York, Miami, LA, Chicago, DC, Dubai, and Riyadh. I engaged in press, bookstore signings, talks, and podcasts to reach as many audiences as possible. It’s been so much fun.
00:04:48 – A What has been your favorite part? I loved the signings and bookstore talks during my book tour.
00:05:01 – B I visited a bookstore in Miami called Books and Books in Coral Gables, one of the oldest bookstores in the country. It felt like a library with wall-to-wall books and ladders. Having conversations with readers about the book was really fun. My favorite part of the tour was visiting the bookstores.
00:05:28 – B Every time I went into a bookstore, I bought books and carried more books. I love holding, collecting, and underlining my books. Many people can’t borrow my books because I’ve marked them up and dog-eared the pages. It’s been fun.
00:05:46 – A Oh great. That’s a blast.
00:05:48 – B What about you? What did you love about your book launches?
00:05:51 – A The biggest thing was the readings at bookstores or walking into my neighborhood bookstore and seeing my book there. I also enjoyed doing keynotes where people would come up for me to sign their books, which were often marked up. That was my favorite part.
00:06:16 – A But as we discussed before, it’s not all great. It’s hard launching a book.
00:06:26 – B Hard launching a book.
00:06:27 – A Yeah.
00:06:27 – B I’ll share two fun stories. One is when I was flying from Miami to Chicago. As I got off the plane, I noticed a gentleman in front of me reading my book. It was a meta moment for me. He had been reading it for four hours.
00:06:40 – B I asked him how the book was, and he said it was incredible. He showed me all the post-it notes and underlining he did during the flight. When I told him I wrote that book, it was a weird and rewarding moment. He realized I was the author and knew a lot about me.
00:07:17 – B He wanted to ask me about several things. That was a fun moment. One time, I went into a Barnes and Noble and asked for a book called Seven Rules of Self Reliance. I waited for her to look it up and walk us to the spot to find it. It was the first time after my book came out that I went into a bookstore to see it.
00:07:42 – B It felt surreal. They recognized me as the author, and I signed some books in the store. They even put a sticker on them saying “author.”
00:07:52 – A Wow.
00:07:52 – B I was worried they might not have it. We were filming with my niece, and I thought, what if we get there and they say they don’t have any copies? But they had it, so it was great.
00:08:05 – A Yeah, isn’t that fun? It reminds me of when I launched my book and went to conferences where people asked me to sign their books. It was surprising to see people recognize me. I went to the grocery store in Chicago recently, and someone whose book I had signed elsewhere was there. We talked, and it’s a small world. I feel so grateful.
00:08:40 – B I’ve noticed that books are becoming more respected and appreciated. People are tired of screen fatigue and want quiet time to read and learn. There’s a resurgence in genres that weren’t popular before, like romantic fantasy novels. People enjoy reading again and value that solitude.
00:09:14 – B People appreciate that quiet time and solitude. We spend so much time on our computers and social media.
00:09:23 – B Spending time with a book, even just 10 minutes a day, is becoming a trend. People enjoy buying, collecting, and reading books. This trend highlights the value of holding a book and reading it, creating a meditative process. You can read on a plane, at home, or by the fireplace during a long holiday weekend. Finding time to learn through books is important.
00:09:57 – A That’s not surprising because of the prevalence of AI.
00:10:04 – A When you mentioned fantasy, I think people seek something novel and authentic. I participated in a LinkedIn Top Voices video session where we discussed the power of video. LinkedIn noted that video content is skyrocketing because people prefer hearing from those who are in the field daily rather than major news outlets.
00:10:34 – A People want genuine voices, not AI-generated content. I love seeing this shift.
00:10:41 – A I would like to discuss your book. I’ve been looking through it, and the title caught my attention. For me, “leaning below the surface” represents empathy and connection. When I saw “self-reliance,” I thought it sounded selfish. Can we discuss that?
00:11:06 – B The term “self” often puts people off, suggesting selfishness. The book, titled “7 Rules of Self Reliance,” may seem like a guide to independence, but it actually conveys the opposite message.
00:11:24 – B It’s about empowering yourself and investing in yourself first. Before asking for something from your employer or your team as an entrepreneur, consider how you can rely on yourself. Can you build relationships? Are you good at networking? Are you building your personal brand and reputation? Are you creating value for others? Are you creating the opportunities you want to see in your life? Self-reliance is about taking responsibility for what you can do and what you want to see in your life.
00:12:07 – B Many times, we wait for permission from others. We expect others to bring opportunities or invest in us when we have the capability to do it ourselves. This is the new playbook for operating in today’s world: do for yourself first before asking others for help.
00:12:29 – A I was thinking that if you want something done, you have to do it yourself. Is that correct?
00:12:36 – B Not at all.
00:12:36 – A Great.
00:12:37 – B If you want something done, invest in yourself so you can be of value to others. One chapter is called Be a Value Creator. How can you rely on yourself to create value for others? Anticipate needs and deliver what they may not know they need. A simple question can be, “How can I help?” What are your interests? What challenges are you facing? Can I introduce you to someone who might assist you? I rely on myself to bring value.
00:13:19 – B I don’t expect others to hand it to me so I can pass it on to you.
00:13:23 – A That’s different. I was raised to go after what you want. My working-class background instilled a mentality of relying on yourself, hard work, and not waiting for others to act for you, while also asking for what you need. What inspired you to write a book about this? Was there a specific event in your life?
00:13:52 – B I have worked for 30 years, 20 years as an entrepreneur. I held two full-time jobs, one at General Mills and Sports Marketing, and another at Google Header Communications and Global Public Policy in Dubai. When I looked at the throughline of my career, I identified key lessons. I relied on myself to find answers, my skills, my experience, my relationships, and my knowledge.
00:14:22 – B These are the four key elements I consider when I think about holding all the cards in my hand. For example, networking is often daunting and difficult. How do I network through social media, LinkedIn, or Zoom calls? I realized the importance of building my own network. If I need something, I prefer not to ask others for their network to get it done for my client. I want to rely on myself to build relationships and my network.
00:15:08 – B Having a network is not about asking for favors or getting tickets to a game or a job for a relative. It’s about serving my network, showing up for them, and nurturing those relationships so they can bring me into their network. I believe there are two currencies in this world: having the right relationships and maintaining a good reputation.
00:15:27 – B A good reputation and personal brand attract opportunities. They allow me to open doors for myself and my network and create value for others. It involves a push and pull; I must work hard to ensure people know who I am and what I do, or if I have a reputation for delivering results, opportunities will come to me.
00:15:51 – A I love this example about networking. Can we dive into this a little more? I always talk about networking below the surface, but how do people leverage their network or work towards the big ask, like a significant introduction or a raise? What advice can you give folks reflecting on the rules of self-reliance?
00:16:24 – B Don’t go for the ask first. Think about it in a couple of ways. Be a long-term player.
00:16:33 – B Make continuous deposits in someone’s trust bank so you can make that withdrawal later. Focus on building a relationship, getting to know them, serving them, or introducing them to someone. Send them an article; be of value first. I don’t like the give-and-take model where you do something to get something in return.
00:16:57 – B Think of it as a long-term play. If you want to build a relationship with a powerful person, take a couple of steps back. Build equity in the relationship and think about how to serve your network. When you approach relationships with a giving mindset, you set a better foundation than if you focus on taking.
00:17:27 – A It’s like the give-and-take model from Adam Grant, and it matters.
00:17:32 – B It really matters. If you can be someone people rely on, trust, and consistently deliver results for them, then you can make the ask. I don’t create a relationship to get the ask right away. I think about how to create value for them. Should I connect them to someone? Could I be a super connector? Help them unlock a problem they care about? This shows you’re intentional, listening, and value the relationship.
00:18:05 – B It also shows you’re not there for a hit-and-run. You’re not just taking what you need and leaving. You’re trying to consistently show up for them in a meaningful way.
00:18:16 – A What would you say to someone who feels that it takes too long? They might say they’ve sent five articles or things to add value, but this person still isn’t noticing them. What would you say?
00:18:35 – B It happens. You consistently show up for someone, and they don’t deliver. How did you frame the ask? Did you provide reasonable information? Often, people say they need help but aren’t specific about what they need or if it’s time-sensitive.
00:18:54 – B You have to be specific about your ask and the relationship to what you’re trying to create. Networking is a transparent process. You’ll know right away if someone can help or not. I treat my networks the same way they treat me. If I can help, I do.
00:19:18 – B If I can’t help, I say so. I might think of someone who can assist. Be honest about your capabilities to avoid stringing someone along.
00:19:29 – A I love that. It’s surprising how many people don’t ask. I do that too. I wonder why someone isn’t noticing me. Then a friend asks what I asked for, and I realize I didn’t ask for anything specific.
00:19:55 – A It’s a step you have to be intentional about.
00:20:00 – B I was going to read you something for the book. About being a long-term player, seek to know what others value and focus on delivering that. Create value behind the scenes. What can bring someone behind the scenes?
00:20:17 – B Let me give you an example. We are on this podcast today. I will create value for you behind the scenes. How do I build my relationship with you? Is it sharing the podcast with my audience? Is it asking friends to subscribe to my friend’s podcast because I love this show and believe you’ll gain insights from it?
00:20:40 – B Is it connecting you to a guest you want on a future show? That’s networking and adding value. Many people don’t consider networking beyond getting a job or making an introduction.
00:20:53 – B It could be as simple as spending 10 minutes a day networking on social media, sharing friends’ posts, commenting on their activities, and staying attentive to what’s important to them. Are they traveling? What events are they speaking at? Can I help promote their work? This requires little time and no money, and it shows up for people consistently. Can you allocate 10 minutes in your calendar to network on LinkedIn, Instagram, or your preferred platform to create value for your network?
00:21:29 – B That’s what I’m talking about.
00:21:30 – A It’s like the saying that the people who talk about you when you’re not in the room are the ones you want in your life. I’ve had referrals from people like that, and I was surprised.
00:21:48 – B Behind the scenes is where you didn’t expect it. That’s where the intentional relationships create value for you without you even asking.
00:22:02 – A What are the rules? What are the seven rules? Let’s go through those.
00:22:06 – B The first rule is to stay low and keep moving. We live in a world full of distractions. If you have a goal that you care about, how much time do you dedicate to focusing on it without getting distracted by clients, family, or other aspects of life? Can you carve out time to focus on what you need to do?
00:22:31 – B Staying low doesn’t mean being low profile. It means being self-reliant. To achieve your goals, you need to focus and recognize the distractions in the world today.
00:22:44 – A I love the idea of staying low. Is disconnecting from too much political news part of that? Or scrolling too much on social media?
00:22:57 – B Yes, it can consume a lot of time. If you sit in front of your inbox all day, you take on other people’s priorities, which can corrupt your day. I like to close my inbox for an hour to focus on my writing. Otherwise, I just respond to others all day, which distracts me from my goals.
00:23:24 – B It’s important to know when to turn off distractions to focus and keep moving. You will face distractions, setbacks, and urgent matters. You need the mindset to put your head down and get the work done.
00:23:43 – B Many people want to put in hard work but worry about recognition or credit. If you do the hard work, it will speak for itself. Rule number one is to stay low and keep moving. Rule number two is to be a value creator. Consider what you can do to create value for others. Is it helping them unlock something for their business, making an introduction, sharing an idea, or providing support? Small actions can lead to significant impacts. Think about how you can create value for your family.
00:24:13 – B What can I do to create value for my colleagues and customers? Find a value chain or value proposition for them. That’s rule number two. Rule number three is crucial: don’t be a waiter. We’re often waiting.
00:24:34 – B We’re waiting to lose weight, waiting for more money, waiting for everything to align. We fear failure and seek permission from others.
00:24:43 – B We get stuck in analysis paralysis, trying to make decisions. When you’re waiting, you sit in your comfort zone, hoping things will get right. The ducks won’t be in a row. Take the first step.
00:24:59 – B Many people realize they’ve been waiters, waiting for opportunities instead of nudging them along themselves. They wait for permission.
00:25:12 – A I relate to waiting for permission. Earlier as an entrepreneur, I waited for clients to respond, hinging my business success on two people instead of seeking new opportunities.
00:25:37 – B Often, we wait for the right opportunity. Yesterday, I spoke with women in Minnesota who had business ideas but were waiting for the right moment to start. They knew what they wanted to do.
00:25:54 – B When I asked what they were waiting for, they realized it was fear of judgment. They worried about what others would think of their business.
00:26:07 – B I told them that’s a poor way to live. Everyone is on a different journey, and we judge ourselves more than others judge us.
00:26:21 – A Yes.
00:26:22 – B Rule number four: unlearn, relearn, and invest in yourself. Don’t wait for someone to invest in you, like waiting for a manager to take you to training for a promotion.
00:26:35 – B You can learn anything today on the Internet for free. YouTube videos, podcasts, and meetings with others to learn about their business or industry are all free. Consider how much time you spend each week or month learning something new.
00:26:52 – B Is it pickleball, ChatGPT, an application, photo editing skills, or graphic design? Whatever you’re passionate about, related to your job or not, should be part of your daily learning. We are living longer and making more money, which changes our relationship with time.
00:27:16 – B We need to prioritize learning. Unlearning involves identifying things that no longer serve us or are no longer true. For example, the idea that where you went to school dictates your future is outdated. Many companies no longer hire based on CVs or education; they look for empathy, kindness, teamwork, resourcefulness, and reliability.
00:27:43 – B The importance of soft skills in leadership and talent acquisition is something we need to unlearn. People from any industry can succeed in various roles without having specific skills from that industry.
00:28:15 – A This reminds me of the concept of unlearning, which is popular in coaching. It involves unlearning how you respond to certain situations or the expectations you hold, as these can limit you.
00:28:22 – A Remembering our longevity is important. We can have several careers in our lives today.
00:28:40 – B Careers are no longer linear. We don’t just do one thing. They want you to have a day job and interests outside of work because that gives you more perspective and insights. Inputs from multiple avenues make you a better person by providing information from various frameworks.
00:29:05 – B I like to learn from different creators. I switch up the podcasts I listen to to avoid getting stuck in one framework. The world is abundant, and it’s a great time to be alive. You can access rich content from various resources.
00:29:23 – B You can learn anything from anyone, from how they build their business to how they pack their suitcases. We have unlimited access to unfiltered broadcasts from anywhere.
00:29:41 – A Right. So all that free learning, what else? What’s the next one?
00:29:45 – B Rule number five, the biggest chapter of the book, is to treat your reputation like currency. Consider its worth and value. Replace the term personal brand with reputation. Everyone needs to think about their reputation. Do you make an effort to build, control, and invest in it to increase its value?
00:30:08 – B This chapter discusses how to build your reputation online and offline. How you treat people in real life is more important than how you treat them on social media. If you work at a company, consider your reputation. Are you resourceful? Are you a good team player? Are you a good listener? Make sure people know what you stand for. If you’re an entrepreneur, a strong reputation is essential to attract the right talent, investors, suppliers, or partners.
00:30:44 – B All of that matters. We live in a world of cancel culture. Your reputation is everything; it can vanish quickly, and one viral video can destroy your career. Pay attention to it, be intentional, and don’t think that you don’t need to worry about your reputation.
00:31:04 – B You’re wrong.
00:31:07 – A Your reputation is greater than your personal brand. The personal brand feels temporary and self-focused.
00:31:19 – B It’s not about self-promotion; it’s about idea promotion and thought leadership. Take a moment to think about your personal brand. What words would people use to describe you? What do you want your brand to represent? Identify what you want to be known for.
00:31:41 – A Right.
00:31:42 – B Rule number six is to be a long-term player. We live in a world that seeks instant gratification. Consider the long-term benefits of building relationships. This chapter discusses networking in today’s digital world.
00:32:07 – B It provides tips for entrepreneurs, introverts, and employees. For example, how to network within your organization, like at Target, to connect with people for lateral moves or future opportunities.
00:32:45 – B The last rule is to live with no regrets. Your life experiences do not define you; they are part of your story. Consider how to turn struggles into strengths and setbacks into comebacks. Reflect on what will fulfill you the most to avoid saying, “I would have, should have, could have.”
00:33:03 – A Regarding no regrets, what are your thoughts on self-compassion and forgiveness?
00:33:14 – B I think we are harder on ourselves than on others. Nobody judges you as much as you judge yourself. Self-compassion is important. We spend time avoiding negative self-talk and limiting beliefs. Most of the time, we doubt ourselves and our capabilities, thinking we can’t do something or lacking the confidence to try something new.
00:33:43 – B Mostly because you’ve never been asked to do it. You’d be surprised at what you’re capable of when you actually try. I learned that the hard way. Someone asked me to do something I thought I couldn’t do, and they challenged me by asking how I knew if I had never tried.
00:33:57 – B You have to put yourself in the arena to gain experience and understanding. You’ll learn about your capabilities and realize what you want to pursue or avoid. I went through that experience to learn. Self-compassion is a crucial part of self-reliance, helping you understand your capabilities, maintain self-awareness, know when to ask for help, and identify the areas you need to invest in.
00:34:27 – B That’s where it starts for me.
00:34:28 – A This is awesome. Let’s explore how to apply these principles. I have the book here. I want to take a crack at this before Maha does.
00:34:48 – A I love the idea of staying low and keeping moving. There are many distractions and FOMO. Sometimes we go on social media when we shouldn’t. We need to focus on our work and keep moving.
00:35:04 – A Being a value creator means understanding what that value looks like, especially in leadership. I also appreciate thinking of your reputation as currency. What do you know about your reputation, and what insights does that provide about where to focus? Sometimes, you may not be doing what your biggest fans want, and those are the people you add the most value to, but you might not be following that path.
00:35:38 – A You’re not flowing with that river. You’re seeking a different group of people. Understand your reputation and use it as a guide. How about you? What are some ways you would encourage people to apply these concepts?
00:35:53 – B It starts with managing your time. I have no meeting Wednesdays on my calendar to think and catch up. If you want to stay focused and avoid distractions, examine how you spend your week. Could you dedicate one hour on Sundays to learn or 30 minutes on Tuesday nights? Block time for what matters, just like you do for family, workouts, hobbies, or friends. Relationships are important. Find time in your busy week for these activities.
00:36:31 – B Investing in yourself is crucial. For me, it’s about optimizing my schedule and calendar. How I spend my time matters. Dedicating one hour a week adds up to four hours a month, which compounds into significant effort over the year.
00:36:55 – A That’s important. I noticed this week that some meetings were removed from my calendar. That one hour of unstructured time makes a big difference.
00:37:10 – B I discuss in the book how much effort it takes to do nothing.
00:37:17 – A I need to read that.
00:37:19 – B We often think we need to be busy and productive, but scheduling time to do nothing is important. I’m reflective and like to think through our actions. I ask if we’re doing things right or if we should focus on something new. I need time to think. If I’m constantly executing, I miss input from the market, trends, culture, and my team.
00:37:51 – B You need to pause.
00:37:53 – A Yeah.
00:37:54 – B To be a good writer or provide effective strategy, I need to gather information from multiple sources to feel well-read and well-versed on a topic.
00:38:06 – A Right. This has many valuable insights. How can people find you?
00:38:12 – A We’ll also include some information in the show notes.
00:38:15 – B I would love for people to follow me on LinkedIn and join my newsletter. I send out a weekly newsletter with useful tips. You can find me on social media under my name, Maha Abu Aln. It’s a bit challenging to spell.
00:38:27 – B You can also follow me on Instagram. I conduct workshops and offer free sessions to teach people how to gain publicity or start their own podcast. I want to connect with the community. If you read the book, tag me and share your favorite rule or the rule you plan to implement in 2025.
00:38:49 – B It’s exciting to see how people apply these rules. Each chapter includes reflection exercises, a cheat sheet, and a summary to help you implement the rules.
00:39:02 – A I plan to subscribe to the newsletter today because many insights resonate with me and I believe they will resonate with our clients as well. Thank you, Maha, for joining us.
00:39:17 – B Thank you.
00:39:18 – A I’m glad we connected. This is just the beginning of our relationship. Thank you to everyone watching or listening. This is a reminder that we are also on YouTube. You can find us on changecoaches.io and The Change Coaches YouTube channel for episodes of the Below the Surface podcast. Thank you, and we’ll see you next time.
00:39:39 – B Bye. Thank you.